Kelly Sutliff was violently attacked and almost murdered by her ex-husband, but the nightmare didn’t end there. This New Jersey gun owner had the state’s “red flag” confiscation law weaponized against her even after she was attacked. And when the dust finally settled, the system still wanted to keep her disarmed.
(Portions of this interview have been edited for clarity and brevity.)
John Petrolino: Today I’m talking with fellow Garden State gun owner, Kelly Sutliff. Kelly, how are you doing today?
Kelly Sutliff: I’m good, John. Thanks so much for having me.
JP: It’s a pleasure to talk to you, and I’m really honored that you decided to share your story with me so that I could share it with my audience. You have what’s a horrible story to tell, and I was hoping we could get into the details. I also think that your story is important when we’re talking about some of the topics that you’re going to be bringing up, because it’s almost a textbook definition of abuse on so many different levels. So, why don’t you introduce yourself here? Tell us a little bit about yourself, and then we’ll get into what brought us here today.
KS: Sure. So my name is Kelly Sutliff, and by trade, I’m actually a licensed professional counselor. I have a private practice in Morristown. I’m also a survivor of domestic violence, and my assault occurred on December 16, 2019, which really, like you said, kind of spiraled into a lot of abuse from not only my abuser but also the criminal justice system as well as family court. And now you know what I do — what my passion is — I’m an advocate for survivors of domestic violence and I run a nonprofit which is called Kelly’s K9s, Tails of Courage, where we provide trained protection dogs to survivors of domestic violence.
JP: Okay, please tell us what happened. We’re talking about this event that happened many moons ago. I’m sure you remember it like yesterday. Let’s start with — you and I just talked about this — there were zero red flags that indicated that you were having any potential problems down the road, right? … There was nothing that gave you any indication that there was impending doom or problems, so maybe talk a little bit about that, and then we’ll get into what actually happened.
KS: Yeah, there really wasn’t anything major that occurred. I always say this — I probably would have told you up until the day that my ex Chris tried to kill me that I had the best husband in the world. There were little things that my gut would say, ‘Something isn’t right,’ but those things easily were rationalized away by Chris if I brought it up to him, or honestly even by me.
And you know, I call them “pink flags.” So were there pink flags. But the little things didn’t make sense until the big thing happened. Never in a million years would I have ever thought he would have ever laid a hand on me. We really didn’t fight. I would have said that we had a great relationship, and then, on December 16, 2019. Things just went from zero to 100.
JP: That’s when everything got kinetic, for lack of a better term, he tried to take your life, right?
KS: He did. What started it that day is my dog had gotten me up really — the dog that I had at the time, Chester — he had gotten me up really early that day and that wasn’t something that was typical for him to do. When I took him out and I brought him back inside, the way Chris fell asleep with his phone just looked really funny, and my gut said, ‘Look in his phone. Look in his phone.’ And I had only ever looked in his phone once before, and that was to find something he took a picture of that he wanted me to buy.
In looking in his phone, I found all these really disgusting messages with another woman. (At) that moment, I thought to myself … I was a fan of true crime before I became a member of the true crime community myself, and I’d watched enough true crime to know … you don’t know who you might be married to. That thought kept going through my head.
Before I even woke Chris up to confront him about the messages, I changed the codes to my safe because that’s where my gun was, that’s where my cash was, my jewelry. Because remember, the thought that’s going through my head is, I don’t know who I’m married to. I wake Chris up, and I just start reading the messages to him, and he says nothing.
Throughout the course of the day I wanted him to leave the house, but he refused. I had been getting a lot of work done on the house, and that was actually the last day of the renovations. Chris was like, “Listen, I’ll stay and deal with the contractors,” because I really didn’t want to talk to anyone that day. I didn’t know what I was doing in this marriage, so of course Chris, even though he said he was going to leave me alone that day, he didn’t. At one point, he came into the bedroom where I really kind of just holed myself up for the day, and asked me if I was going to leave him.
I had made the decision by that point that I was, and I have to be honest with you, John, I think that’s what sealed my death warrant. I’m not aware that I’m poking a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I didn’t realize that by telling him I was leaving that my relationship could potentially get abusive and dangerous. I didn’t realize I was in an abusive relationship until I was in an abusive relationship, and I think when I told Chris I was going to leave him, that’s what really signed my death warrant. And I think he started to calculate how he was going to kill me that day.
JP: Okay, so then fast forward. This is towards the evening when everything went down, right?
KS: Right. What happened was at one point Chris came in and he tried to get me to hit him. And I remember being like, “What’s going on?” And he comes in the bedroom and he (said), “Hit me, hit me. You’ll feel better if you hit me.” And I said to him, “Chris, you know I’ve never laid a hand on you. I’m in emotional pain. I’m not in physical pain.”
“I would take my gun and shoot myself before I ever lay a hand on you,” I told him.
I’m in emotional pain, but what Chris didn’t know was I had told my best friend what was going on that day. When he came in the room and tried to get me to hit him, and I made that comment about my gun, I got right on the phone with my best friend Christina, and I was telling her what just happened. At that same time, Chris was beeping in, calling her, and again he didn’t know that we were talking.
I said to her, “Pick it up, pick it up.” And she does. And Chris says to her, “Kelly just said she’s going to shoot me with the gun.” Now, Christine knows I didn’t say that, so she calls me back, and I’m like, “Why is he lying about my gun?” Still not thinking he’s going to hurt me or hurt himself, but I say to her, “I’m taking the gun out of the house.”
And honestly, John, thank God I did, because I think if I didn’t, I’m not sure I’d be here today. Because I think what Chris … I can only speculate. I think Chris was going to try to shoot me with the gun. I think he may have had a gun in the house that I didn’t know about. That was also a replica of mine. But if I didn’t take that gun out of the house, I’m not sure I’d be here today.
Once Christina told me that, I went to my sister’s house, dropped the gun off, and it was just the shell of the gun. I left the magazine as well as the ammo in my safe, and when I got to my sister’s house to drop off the shell of the gun, I started getting text messages from Chris, basically saying, “You know, you’re going to come home to a dead body.” And just really kind of cursing me out.
Now I start racing home, and I get home. I walk through the garage, and it’s funny — at the time I’m walking through the garage, I didn’t know this at the time, I knew this afterwards when I got Chris’s phone. But he’s also in the mirror filming himself. He had cut himself, basically telling me to go screw myself.
When I walked into the foyer, Chris got in my face and he said, “Thanks so much for always having the ID channel on, because now I’m gonna make this look like you tried to murder me.” My house was in mint condition, and in 45 minutes, he did $63,000 worth of damage to my home, assaulted me multiple times. He strangled me three separate times that night. He threw my head through a sheetrock wall where I lost consciousness. He then threw me into the bedside table where I once again lost consciousness.
He held a military knife to my throat and he also pried my mouth open and tried to get me to swallow a bottle of Xanax to get me to kill myself. And the only way I got out that night was, you know, my visual memory still to this day is a little spotty. I actually remember things more and more as the years go on. But auditory, I remember everything and I can remember being upstairs and hearing Chris in my kitchen destroying everything.
I knew that would be the only way that I could get out of the house without him knowing. I hid my dog in the basement and I took off out my front door and to my neighbor’s to have them call 911 because what Chris would do is he would throw the phones so I couldn’t find a phone and that’s when he would strangle me.
When I was at my neighbor’s house, I could see Chris in the bay window smearing his blood all over. Because that’s the other thing Chris was doing. He was purposely cutting himself deeper throughout that 45 minutes and smearing blood all over the house. Remember, he was trying to get this to look like I attacked him. I was at my neighbor’s house and he was smearing blood on the bay window, and he started to walk to the basement, and that’s where I hid Chester.
I’m not advocating for anyone to ever run back into a dangerous situation, but both my parents are deceased. I have a very small family. That dog meant everything to me. I wasn’t going to let him put a hand on my dog, so I wiggled myself out of my neighbor’s arms. I ran back into the house, and by the grace of God, my smart dog must have stayed at the top step of the basement.
I think when Chris opened the basement door, my dog went out, and it really was divine timing. I ran in probably at that exact time, and I was able to grab Chester, put him into the office, and barricade Chris in the basement. The police came literally two seconds later, barreling through my front door, and that’s how I’m here today.
JP: So you were talking to him, and he said, “What about your gun?” You had it locked up. And then what was it that you had said? Because I missed that.
KS: So at one point during the day, he tried to get into my safe, and I had changed the code. Oh yeah, and I remember that was early in the morning. He tried and there was nothing of his that he needed from those safes.
So he tried to get to my safe, and he said to me …, “You changed the codes to your safe.” And I said, “Yeah.” I said, “And you have zero right to ask me any questions today.” And he made up some lie that he needed to get his checkbook, and I said “No, you don’t, because I gave you your checkbook a few days ago. So there’s nothing in the safe that you need.”
But I’m still, at that point, not thinking he’s going to hurt me. There was a moment where Chris came in and tried to get me to punch him, and I was trying to make the point to Chris, “I’m in emotional pain. I’m not in physical pain. I’ve never laid a hand on you. I’m certainly not going to start today. You know, I would take my gun and shoot myself before I ever lay a hand on you.”
And I wasn’t suicidal. He knew I wasn’t. He knew I was making the point that I’m in emotional pain. But what he did was he immediately called my best friend Christina.
JP: Right…
KS: And then told her the lie (about me shooting him), and that’s where I was like, okay, gun’s got to go. Why is he lying about my gun?
JP: Okay, so this all happened on what day of the week was it? Was it a weekend?
KS: This was a Monday.
JP: It was a Monday. Okay, so from Monday, I guess, take over from there. Monday to the rest of the week, you had a bunch of things transpire, but then that’s not where you got victimized the second time.
KS: What ends up happening is there are temporary restraining orders. I have one on Chris. He goes to the hospital for his wounds, and about a month and a half after the incident, it’s a Friday night … there’s the final restraining order coming up, and I think this is an important piece because I’m fairly certain Chris and his lawyer did this to get me to back off from pursuing a final restraining order.
Remember, this happened December 16, 2019. At the end of January on a Friday night, Chris goes to the Morris County Prosecutor’s Office right before closing, literally right before 5 o’clock, and basically says that I’m a danger to myself, I’m a danger to other people. I’m a drug addict. I’m an alcoholic. I have severe mental health issues, and I have a high-capacity magazine.
And then I am the first domestic violence victim/survivor in the State of New Jersey to have their gun taken away from me, so Chris used the red flag law against me. Basically, I believe to disarm me, to render me completely defenseless, because after that, all the stalking occurred.
I have to say, John, you know, I’ve been through a lot with the domestic violence it also came out that I believe Chris was drugging and raping me in my sleep. There was a year-long investigation where the prosecutor’s office felt that there wasn’t enough evidence to prosecute him for that, but he was.
Beyond all of that, having my gun taken away from me was the most traumatic thing that happened. Because in that moment, I realized the system that I thought was designed to protect people who were in my situation is not doing that, and it’s dead. It’s punishing me.
In September of 2019, before this happened, I went to the shooting range with my best friend Christina. I think it was in 2014 that I first got an FID card, and I took lessons and everything. But I really hadn’t touched my gun in years, and this was the first time in a long time that we went shooting.
At that shooting lesson, the instructor said to me, “Oh my God, your magazines are illegal. This is a new law. Like if, God forbid you get caught, you can get into a lot of trouble. You could even potentially go to jail. Like it’s a big deal.” And I’m like, “Oh my God.” I had two extra bullets, so I had a 12-round mag, and I needed 10.
What the instructor did was he confiscated one of my mags, and with the other magazine, he took out two of the rounds. So there was only 10, but still it had the placement for 12. And he said, “Listen, when you go home, tell your husband … Have your husband discard this. But I don’t want to leave you utterly defenseless, God forbid tonight something happens at your house.”
I went home from that shooting lesson in September of 2019 and told Chris. And Chris said, “Oh no, big deal, I’ll take care of it.” Do you think he ever took care of it? Nope. So when he went a month and a half after the attack to let them know that I have this high capacity magazine, he knew exactly what he was doing. He set me up, and I told the prosecutor’s office that.
JP: Okay, so you ended up with the final restraining order being filed against him. He red flagged you, and so they…
KS: Well, it was a temporary restraining order.
JP: Okay.
KS: I have to be honest with you because when I was red flagged and had my gun taken away, I realized he could use the law against me. I ended up dropping that restraining order. He got what he wanted.
JP: So you were in the process of doing that. Then he red flagged you? They confiscated your firearm, and then they are also pushing charges against you for felony possession of a so-called high-capacity magazine.
KS: Well, I didn’t know that at the time. I found that out maybe a few days, few weeks later, where they’re now saying they didn’t end up charging me, but I was threatened for a very long time. My lawyer really kind of had to fight them on charging me for a high capacity magazine. Correct.
JP: Then you’re fighting this whole process. You’re going through a divorce. You’re going through family court. You’re going through all of these other things. Obviously, or maybe not obviously, the TERPO, the red flag against you. How long did it take until that actually got dropped?
KS: I don’t know the exact time, but in order to get that dropped — I was going through family court. I’m going through criminal court with Chris’s charges, and I really was just…I couldn’t take on another fight at that time.
I went to the court hearing and I just said, “Take my gun, fine. Take it. And take my FID card.” And I just let it go. I couldn’t fight for it back. I couldn’t do that whole thing, and I would say that my gun was taken from the end of January.
Maybe it was within a few months that that happened, and that was a little bit of a shit show at the courthouse too, because this was the first time that anyone had been like, “No, I don’t want…I don’t want the gun back.” They didn’t even really know what to do with that. And then it turned out, whether or not it was because I forfeited my gun, I don’t know — I’m pretty confident that it could be, but you know, then I wasn’t charged with the felony.
JP: All right. So now, fast forward where you’ve finally finalized your divorce. You got that all taken care of. He’s out of your life now, completely, right?
KS: Yeah.
JP: Go ahead.
KS: In October of 2022, Chris pled guilty to aggravated assault by strangulation, criminal mischief, and possession of a deadly weapon, and he was sentenced to three years probation. Probation. The man never served one second in jail throughout this entire process. And then in October of 2023, he dragged out the criminal trial as well as the divorce, he finally agreed to divorce me, so that’s when all that happened.
JP: Did you ever get another restraining order against him or anything?
KS: At one point, I did have another temporary restraining order against him, and he also had a TERPO against him. There was another restraining order against him, a temporary for stalking. The police, myself, lawyers, we all believe that Chris was stalking me heavily throughout this process, but I could not prove that it was him behind the wheel of the car. I was asked to or encouraged to drop that temporary restraining order because it could have looked bad if I didn’t get it for the criminal trial, and the last thing I wanted to do was jeopardize the criminal trial.
I made the decision to drop that temporary restraining order as well. And you know, at one point, it was believed that Chris may have had guns that he shouldn’t have had. There was a TERPO against him at one point that was dismissed.
JP: Now you’re telling your story. You’re a crime survivor, a crime victim, and you’re telling your story, you were on a show, right?
KS: Yes, I was on ‘Toxic.’ It originally aired on Investigation Discovery with Elizabeth Chambers. My episode is the first episode called “Sleeping with a Stranger.” You can stream it on Hulu or HBO Max, and I also do a lot of social media.
You can find me at Real Talk with Kelly or at Kelly’s Canines Tails of Courage. Talking about my story and really advocating for survivors — because silence is what keeps these individuals abusing — I just feel like it’s very important, not only for that aspect, but also to shed awareness on how the criminal justice system fails victims. Because from what I actually recently found out, John, I am also not the only survivor that has gone through Morris County Prosecutor’s Office that has also gotten their firearm taken away from them.
JP: Right. So your firearm was seized. You basically had to surrender your rights, and then you were on the television show, and then you got, I guess, an email, a phone call from a friend of mine?
KS: Yes. Actually, Mike Sodini, who you know is now, I would consider a good friend of mine as well. He was watching my show, and of course, Mike is very big in the firearms world, firearms and mental health. He got in contact with me and had me on his show. I went on his show, I believe it was last year, July of 2025. After that, he and I got talking, and he said, “Listen, I really think you need to reapply.”
I knew when I surrendered my FID card, it was for that card that there was nothing in writing ever saying: “Kelly, you can never have another FID card again, or a firearm.” But I was also told that it might not ever happen for me again. (I thought): Do I want to go through this fight again?
Mike must have caught me on a day where I was (thinking) let’s do it, Mike.
He (said), “Listen, I got your back. I’m going to help you through it.” That started the process of me reapplying, and I re-applied last July of 2025, and (it) wasn’t easy.
The Morris County Prosecutor’s Office, they did not want me to have another FID card. I reapply. I get a phone call from my police department, who I want to mention is amazing. The Hanover Township Police Department, from the beginning of my situation up until present day, has been nothing but supportive, encouraging, and amazing. I don’t blame them for anything that happened to me. I one hundred percent blame the Morris County Prosecutor’s Office.
One of the sergeants called me up and said, “Listen, you know, the prosecutor’s office got wind that you reapplied, and to be honest, they’re looking for every which way to deny you.” And the sergeant was honest. He said, “I don’t see how we can deny you. You don’t meet any of the criteria.”
They had meetings back and forth. And last year, maybe I guess 30 days later, they didn’t deny me, but they came back and said, “We’re gonna table your application. We want you to get a psychiatric evaluation, and you have to overturn the TERPO.” I lawyer up. I call up Evan Nappen. I’m sure you’re familiar with Evan, and Evan says, “Please let me take your case.” He watched the show immediately, and said, “Please let me take your case.”
He was horrified at what the system did to me. And Evan rescinded my original application, and Evan basically explained, “Listen, I have no problem with you getting the psychological, but what I do have a problem with is this overturning of the TERPO. The TERPO was dismissed. There is no TERPO. What are we overturning?”
I went and had the psychological done, which I didn’t realize it’s a really long process and a really expensive process. That took me months to complete. I did about eight or nine sessions, I believe, and then I refilled out the application and submitted it, and I just got approved for a new FID card this past July.
That’s where Mike came in and talked with Raphael over at Bersa, and Bersa was so generous and so kind because of everything that happened to me to donate a GLOCK (sic) to me. So that’s kind of where we are today.
JP: That’s a harrowing story, and your experience is just over the top. When I talk to people who are victims, I always say that the first original crime is usually just the first time they’re victimized. Because, you look at the system and you were made a victim again via a false red flag order being levied against you ex parte.
You had your your firearm confiscated from you, conceivably when you needed it the most, when you had somebody that really had a bone to pick with you that was obviously unstable. And then you were victimized again when after the seizure they did not make it easy to just say, “Hey take your firearm back.”
You basically surrendered it, which is complicated in New Jersey because New Jersey law doesn’t stipulate you have to be the person who’s on the receiving end of domestic violence to have yourself become disqualified, they just said because of the domestic violence. Then you were victimized again when the prosecutor’s office gave you friction about you trying to get your new FID card.
This is almost a textbook abuse case in the Garden State, and a case that people who are fans of these red flag laws that are enacted against people and used against people ex parte with zero due process. I don’t agree with any of them. However, if you had a chance to sit there before a judge and say, “Look, this is what happened.” No judge would probably issue a red flag seizure against a woman that was almost murdered by the person who’s saying they’re a threat. I think your story is very important.
KS: Thank you. So do I. Because I don’t want to see this continue to happen. Unfortunately, I now know that I’m not the only one. It has since, I believe, happened after me. But something needs to change because the red flag law is being used against people unjustly.
JP: Sure. And now you said since you’ve started the process to get repatriated with your rights, you’ve run into other people that had similar issues, right? This is actually somewhat common, is what you’re finding?
KS: Yeah, in New Jersey, I think I know at least one or two people that this has happened to that have reached out to me to let me know. But there’s people from other states that are reaching out to me, letting me know that this has happened to them as well. And I’m talking (about) survivors of domestic violence specifically.
JP: Right. You’re not even talking about some other spat that was also unconstitutional, but conceivably meaningless in comparison to what happened.
KS: Correct. I’m specifically referring to a survivor of domestic violence or sexual assault.
JP: Well, what is your message to women out there, (who are) similarly situated, but you don’t know because, like you said, there was no telltales … I guess what would be your overall advice to people to safeguard themselves?
KS: My biggest advice is listen to your gut. If your gut tells you something is wrong, something is wrong. Don’t worry about getting the evidence because there might not be any. I think that’s what I was looking for when I was rationalizing those pink flags away. I should have listened. I wish I listened to my gut.
The other thing is, leaving is the most dangerous time for victims of domestic violence or even someone in a toxic relationship. Your relationship doesn’t have to be abusive for it to become abusive when you say you are leaving. If you want to leave your relationship, tell someone trusted. Make a plan. Don’t do it alone. That would be my other biggest piece of advice.
I think I always like to say I know how dark it can feel at times being in a violent relationship and then going through the process of criminal and family court, but I promise there is a light at the end of the tunnel. If you would have told me — we’re coming up on the seventh anniversary — if you would have told me six years ago that I’d be sitting here today talking about what happened to me, talking about how my gun was taken from me and advocating for change, I would have laughed. But here I am.
Another piece of advice: Hang in there, have hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel, no matter how dark it seems.
The other important thing is we have to do what we have to do to protect ourselves. When my gun was taken away from me, someone said to me, “I think you need a protection dog,” and I went out and I bought my first protection dog, Stella. That has now become my life, and obviously I have the nonprofit, and I now provide other survivors with trained protection dogs, but I think you know as a woman we need to do whatever we need to do to protect ourselves.
JP: I was just going to segue into that before we wrapped up. And you have your organization that does this, and you have two different avenues to which people can be protected by a dog. Why don’t you give me your elevator pitch on that, and then also the two avenues for people to get their dogs or have a protection dog, I should say.
KS: Kelly’s Canines Tails of Courage is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit where we provide trained protection dogs to survivors of domestic violence. And again, the reason why this exists is because of my first trained protection dog, Stella. There’s two ways that we give a survivor a trained protection dog.
The first one is the placement program, and that’s where a survivor applies on our website, which is KellysK9s.org. They fill out the application and we will match up one of our protection dogs and give that dog free of cost to the survivor of domestic violence.
However, we’re not just giving a dog to a survivor and then saying, “Okay, be on your way.” The survivor actually starts to train with their dog. Even though the dog is completely trained, it’s important for the survivor to know how to handle their dog because, in essence, we’re giving you a weapon. The dog is a weapon, so you need to know how to handle your weapon. The survivor joins in on the training.
Then we have our other avenue, which is the partner training program, and that’s where we realized a lot of survivors already have their own dogs. Some of them got dogs because of their situation. What the nonprofit does is, with our partner Metro K9 Academy, who’s really our trainer, we will evaluate a survivor’s dog, and if Bobby Gierla, who’s the owner of Metro K9 Academy and trainer, if he and I feel that the dog has the characteristics to potentially be a protection dog, we will take that dog on. The nonprofit will pay (for) the course, the cost, the initial cost for the training of that dog to become a protection dog.
JP: Okay, well, I think that’s fantastic. Before we go, hit me with all of your socials again one more time. So, where people can find you, where they could reach out to you in all the places.
KS: Yeah. So the most important is Kelly’s Canines. So Kelly’s Canines Tales of Courage. The website is KellysK9s.org. You can contact me through there. Please sign up for our email blasts. That’s the best way to stay up to date with everything that we’re doing. Also, we’re a nonprofit, so we always could use donations. I’m not able to give a survivor a dog or train a survivor’s dog without the generosity of donations. You can also find me on any major social media platform at Kelly’s Canines Tails of Courage or at Real Talk with Kelly.
JP: Perfect, Kelly. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. I definitely appreciate it, and I’ll include links to all that to let people know where they could find you.
KS: Thanks so much for having me on, John. I appreciate you telling my story and sharing my story with your listeners. Thank you so much.
If you’d like to tune into the entire interview with Kelly Sutliff, you can check that out HERE. You can find Kelly online at KellysK9s.org or RealTalkWithKelly.org. Links to all of Kelly’s socials can be found at those websites.
Are you or someone you know experiencing domestic violence and need help? There are resources available. The National Domestic Violence Hotline can be reached at 1-800-799-7233 and found online at TheHotline.org