It appears that the incident that resulted in the death of an Air Force airman and was blamed on an uncommanded discharge of a SIG SAUER M18 pistol was something very different. From CNN . . .
A US airman has been charged with obstruction of justice and involuntary manslaughter in connection with a fatal firearm discharge at an Air Force base in July, which resulted in the death of a 21-year-old service member.
The on-duty incident, which killed Airman Brayden Lovan, occurred in the early morning hours of July 20 at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming. Few details have been provided about the firearm discharge, though the Air Force said at the time that it was under investigation and out of abundance of caution security forces were conducting “100% inspections of the M18 handguns to identify immediate safety concerns.”
An Air Force spokesperson said in a statement on Friday that the investigation “has progressed and an individual has now been arrested on suspicion of making a false official statement, obstruction of justice, and involuntary manslaughter.”
The airman’s death was the most high profile incident blamed — wrongly, it appears — on an uncommanded discharge of a SIG P320 platform pistol. The death lead directly to a number of retailers, ranges, law enforcement agencies, and training facilities banning the use of P320s. The question now becomes whether this news about the the fatality in Wyoming is enough to change hearts and minds in the gun-owning community about the safety of the P320 platform.
“The airman’s death was the most high profile incident blamed — wrongly, it appears — on an uncommanded discharge of a SIG P320 platform pistol. ”
We don’t know that yet, the wrongly part. It could be that, for example, the guy took the holster off with gun in holster, put it on the table, and the other guy grabbed it and then it had an uncommanded discharge.
Involuntary manslaughter can also be charged if the guy acted in a reckless or negligent manner by grabbing the gun in the holster in some manner. Involuntary manslaughter doesn’t always have to be during a wilful crime event and it could have been a case of ‘dumbassery’ reckless or negligent handling when the uncommanded discharge happened that might not have happened. It could have also been that ‘dumbassery’ reckless or negligent handling ‘playing around’ actually pulled the trigger too not meaning to and it still might be Involuntary manslaughter.
Just saying, we don’t know yet really if there was or was not an uncommanded discharge involved. But it seems who ever did it tried to lie about it and cover it up, and that makes me sort of think more along the lines of ‘dumbassery’ reckless or negligent handling ‘playing around’ unless there was some sort of crime going on and pulling the trigger was unintentional if it was not an uncommanded discharge involved.
“We don’t know that yet, the wrongly part. It could be that, for example, the guy took the holster off with gun in holster, put it on the table, and the other guy grabbed it and then it had an uncommanded discharge.”
This would be a serious violation of US Air Force Manual 31-229, Security, USAF Weapons Handling Manual. Would have been grounds for dishonorable discharge from the service.
You are dissembling in an effort to keep the onus on the pistol. There is much more to the F.E. Warren AFB incident which will eventually be disclosed. General Bussiere blamed the pistol to reduce Senate opposition to his promotion to Air Farce Vice Chair.
“You are dissembling in an effort to keep the onus on the pistol.”
Huh?
I’m not ‘dissembling’ anything … what ever ‘dissembling’ means in this gibberish you wrote.
I’m just saying we don’t really know yet if there was an uncommanded discharge involved yet or not.
Exactly.
Farce??🤔
Yes, we DO know that “it appears”. Stop misquoting. Quote the full phrase or not at all.
I didn’t misquote anything. I quoted it word for word straight from the article and it was this > “The airman’s death was the most high profile incident blamed — wrongly, it appears — on an uncommanded discharge of a SIG P320 platform pistol. ” and that’s exactly how I quoted it. Do you not understand what a complete quote is?
And I specifically placed the context of my post with the “wrongly” part with this > “We don’t know that yet, the wrongly part.” Do you not understand what context is?
Is English not your native language?
We still do not know the ‘wrongly’ part, so it can’t be “…wrongly, it appears…” yet as an assumption like you assume. Which is why I placed my post specifically in the context of the “wrongly” part with this > “We don’t know that yet, the wrongly part.”
So no, we DO NOT know know “it appears” yet, we can’t, until the ‘wrongly’ part in “…wrongly, it appears…” is clarified and defined as to an actual trigger pull or an uncommanded discharge as both could possible result in a charge of Involuntary manslaughter depending on ‘handling conditions’ of the firearm at the time it fired.
Sounds like the Military found a scapegoat…to cover up the fact they screwed up and wasted millions on a very dangerous handgun for our troops.
Remember when they tried to blame the turret explosion on a battleship in the 80’s on a dead sailor. Took them forever to admit it wasn’t his fault.
April 19, 1989. I was serving onboard the Iowa at that time…and remember that day all too well.
JWM, the question I now have is –
Will the USAF now rescind their order to stop using the Sig pistol???
*Something* tells me the answer to that will be no, and I don’t blame them.
I do expect Sig now to start suing everybody they can in sight, and that will end up bankrupting Sig USA, and I hope it does, at this point. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you and expect to get away with it without drastic consequences.
This fiasco will be taught in business schools in the future as a primary example of what NOT do as a corporation…
Seems like a flawed premise. If something really is wrong with the gun these incidents will continue long after the scapegoating.
Maybe you think they’ll just keep scapegoating? Eventually they’ll run out of enlisted.
Ah…to be young and naive.
The military-industrial complex is happy. And so is Sig Sauer. Now they can say “see we didn’t kill anyone.”
“And you can ignore all that security camera footage that YOU say shows a p320 just going off”
“There are no such events.”
“The videos are staged”
“The so called victims just want a big cash payout.”
“And the “gun community” will always back Sig Sauer up.”
“They never disagreed with us when we just had a voluntarily recall.”
A gun that was proven to not be drop safe. I wonder how many of these “grenades” are just waiting to go off???
And how many of these “grenades” will be resold. Over and over again. Since the recall was only voluntarily???
Much conjecture here. We do not have all facts that should be discovered in the investigation. Were the Sig P330 without a reputation for accidental (notice I did not say negligent) discharge, there would probably be less of a reason to point toward the pistol. Let it play out.
However, this is a case of the proverbial “where there there is smoke, there is fire” and Sig may have to own that. I have been a strong Sig fan and own 2. I wouldn’t buy the P320.
“well- a, sometimes i take a aspirin, sometimes i take a calomel.”
I’m not a Sig fanboy – but I have completely disassembled several, and understand the workings fully – and I’ve been saying from the start, that it cannot fire without manipulation of the trigger… Many have been yammering about the youtube video where a guy puts a screw into the trigger, and becoming giddy over the fact that he pulled the trigger to just the point its about to fire and manages to make the sear trip- but ignores the fact that he manipulated the trigger, which by design unlocks the striker….. the short-sighted see a failure – look below the surface and you’ll see he just proved the design works…as designed. anyone whose trigger is fouled to that point, that doesn’t notice and loads the gun is incompetent.
M18 user here. Just a civilian and I chose the M18 because it has a safety. Loved the feel of the 320 but, the trigger is light so, I chose to check myself. IF I have a beef about the M18 is when concealed IWB, it can depress the magazine release and at times, I have to click it back in.
Other than that, for myself, I like the M18.
just cause it wasn’t to blame here , it’s already shot folks and i don’t want one, ill take hammers everytime, Army should of got the Glock if it was truly down to striker fire handgun. to me it should of been a cz75 the army adopted
Given the scant information here, it might be a case of breaking the “don’t catch a falling gun” rule.
Looks to me like nothing in that brief statement says “The gun wasn’t at all responsible.”
Maybe wait until all of the info comes out before shouting “Sig is vindicated!”
Has the AF rescinded their stand-down of the M18? If not, why not, given this information?
Still won’t carry a Sig P320. Too many safer choices.