It’s very good news that more people weren’t murdered in the Twin Falls, Idaho shooting on Saturday. With gratitude for that in mind, was much like others we’ve seen.
A mass murderer usually looks for a location with lots of victims. Shooting people draws attention. Once the shooting starts, the number of casualties depends on how long it takes for police to show up. The murderer wants to spend that time hunting and shooting his victims.
What happens before the police arrive makes all the difference in the world. We’d like the police to stop a mass murderer. So would every officer I’ve ever spoken to. Unfortunately, that takes time.
- It takes time before the first person calls 911. If you were in the restaurant when the shooting started, running from a murder takes priority over grabbing your cell phone. Once you know you’re safe, it often takes time before you think to call for help.
- A 911 dispatcher has to get the information and identify the location where the attack is taking place.
- The dispatcher has to contact available officers who are out on patrol.
- The patrol officers then have to get to the scene.
- Once the officers are there, they have to move on foot, find, and identify the attacker.
Everything takes time. Depending on the location and the number of civilians there, a killer can shoot about 15 people if we wait for the police to arrive and stop an attack. We’ve seen that data play out over the last decade. We have hundreds of examples. That’s the ugly calculus of time.
The results are radically different, however, if armed citizens are on the scene when the shooting starts.
Put yourself in the shoes of an ordinary person who happened to be there and armed that day.
- You hear a gunshot. There are many more ear-witnesses than eye-witnesses. You’re not sure what you heard and don’t want to believe it. Why should there be gunshots at a burger restaurant in the middle of the day?
- You look around. You hear another shot. You see people running away. If you have your family with you and you gather them and run, too. If you’re alone, you move to get a better view of what’s going on. Part of you still wonders if this is really happening.
- You see the gunman. His behavior is recognizable. You identify a threat.
- You move to a position of advantage. You want to see what’s happening, but not be seen by the shooter. That’s called concealment. You’d like to be behind something that will stop bullets. That is called hard cover.
- You engage the attacker.
The murderer wanted to shoot innocent victims. He didn’t want to get into a gunfight where he was being shot at. The murderer typically runs when challenged and usually ends his own life by suicide. Sometimes, he’s shot and killed by armed citizens at the scene who responded before the police arrive.
That’s what happens more and more often. It happens about once every three weeks here in the US. It happened again in Twin Falls, Idaho last week.
The off-duty officer was inside the restaurant when the shooting started. We don’t know if he was in uniform or wearing civilian clothes. The officer responded and the killer ran from the store. An armed citizen was outside and he opened fire on the shooter. The murderer ran again, and then took his own life. Three people were killed by the attacker and more were wounded.
I’ve heard the response from the armed citizen called “the Wild West.” I’ve heard it called “vigilantism.” Some ask, ‘Why not wait for the police?’
You can certainly wait for the police. You can wait an additional five to ten minutes (at best) until they get there. As an armed citizen, you won’t have to worry if you’ve misunderstood what was happening. You won’t have to worry what will happen if you shoot at the killer and miss.
That’s what most people do. They wait and they hope. The bad news is that another dozen or more people will be shot and killed in that time. That’s what happens when you give a murderer time to kill.
We don’t have perfect solutions. Some people are more comfortable letting people die until the police show up. They’re more comfortable taking pictures of it all with their phone. Fortunately, there are millions of people out there who don’t want to wait for the police if they can stop the killing.
About one out of ten adults are armed in public every day in America. People who carry a concealed firearm have felt the weight of the gun. It is a lethal tool. It can take a life. It can also save a life. They’ve generally given it a lot of thought. Their holster weighs down their belt. The gun weighs down their heart. They know that they will never be the same if they have to kill someone. They also know they will never be the same if they sit and watch an innocent person die.
The more these armed citizens think about it, the better they are willing to do. It isn’t a matter of becoming emotionally callous. Far from it. It means they have accepted the result and are willing to pay the price. The more they pay in advance, the less they pay after. There’s always an emotional price. We are lucky that so many of us are willing to pay it.
We owe a debt of gratitude to that off-duty state police officer and the ordinary citizen at that Idaho restaurant. They saved lives. Maybe a dozen or more. They probably wish hey could have saved more.
This article originally appeared at Slow Facts Blog and is reprinted here with permission.
‘wait & hope’ > the name of the anti-gun plan to kill as many as possible. And they are very transparent about it too by often telling us things like, for example, ‘gun free zones are for your safety’ while touting their trap-of-death that specifically attracts mass-killers because its a ‘guarantee by law’ supply of defenseless victims for mass-killers. Yep, and their plan to kill as many as possible works too.
What ever gun you have. Train with it. Like your life depended on it. Jordan Salinas missed. And thats ok. It’s very different when you are getting shot at by a bad guy. But Jordan was very successful.
He did stop the threat.
And some can correct me. But I don’t think he had suppersor high iron sites. And no optic on his sidearm either.
He just trained for years without them. It seems having a suppressor was more important. A type compromise that we make, when choosing and carrying a gun.
Ed Monk has shown that the casualties rapidly increase beyond single digits if the shooter isn’t stopped in the “First Thirty Seconds”. That only happens if someone on the scene engages the shooter. Train and carry(in that order).
Read the book The First 30 Seconds …
I was reading and thinking about this incident and in particular some discussion about the decision to intervene as an armed citizen. As this post states, I think if I were there with family, I would prioritize getting them and myself out of harm’s way. Later I saw video of this guy in the parking lot with his rifle, wandering around, and shooting through a windshield. Someone had taken it with their phone from inside a car in the parking lot. Seeing him take those shot, and knowing that many more shots were likely coming, convinced me that were I there by myself, I would have to try to take him down. I hope in the moment I would have the presence of mind to get it done. He was kind enough to silhouette himself against a shipping container.
Finally we have an incident where “when seconds count police are minutes away (at best)” which benefited those engaging the perp. Had police arrived any sooner odds are they would’ve shot the two gentlemen who acted in defense of themselves and others.
what do you mean ‘finally’?
These events happen ‘frequently’ only you never hear about them because they were stopped by an already on scene ordinary armed citizen before they could begin.
On July 17, 2022 Elisjsha Dicken stopped the mass-killer at the Greenwood Park Mall in Greenwood, Indiana. The shooter began pulling the trigger at 5:56 p.m. EDT and lasted less than one minute because Dicken stopped him cold. But during that less than one minute three people were killed and two others were injured – the police were not there to stop this killer but Elisjsha Dicken was and he met the danger head on to save lives. Dicken did what other ordinary armed citizens have done all through the history of our country and that is go towards the danger to stop it and save lives. The left wing MSM covered it, begrudgingly, but it was a bit before they acknowledged the hero’s actions despite his identity being known and in some cases they had to be made to acknowledge it because in the background anti-gun orgs were trying to suppress such coverage via their MSM contacts and associations. But after that a bunch of left wing media articles appeared trying to down play the hero actions and change the narrative back to the anti-gun narrative of ‘there is no such thing as a good guy with a gun’ and hi-lite the actions of the killer. But what people did not know was that before Eli there had been other armed citizen hero’s, many others, hundreds over time, in just the the twenty year span before Dicken and some stopped the mass-killer after the killer started firing or stabbing but the majority stopped the mass-killer before the killer could start firing or stabbing so it wasn’t wide spread news for MSM because no victims shed blood or were injured.
I once listed hundreds of these events in posts over at TTAG, complete with links to a police reports or a mention in a local news article or report where it happened. Sadly, those posts are lost now as when TTAG changed owners and the site was re-done a lot of posts were lost. I’ve tried to recreate those lists here at SNW but the ghost post issue combined with the ‘multiple links’ issue will not let them post so I gave up, but in the mean while I lost a hard drive and was unable to recover the list among other data, and I have not re-done the research again completely and some of the sources are no longer available due to the changing nature of the internet. A lot of them took place in areas no one normally associates with mass-killers because of left wing MSM coverage., a lot took place in law emplaced gun-free zones or in areas where property owners had posted ‘no weapons/guns’ prohibition signs, and in places like, for example, auto-parts stores, convenience stores, or homes or private events, where the mass-killer was stopped and victims saved before any blood was shed and the mass-killer was only charged with an attempted-something (i.e. robbery or murder, or maybe a weapons charge, which are pretty much run of the mill charges so it doesn’t make the news and the actual story of stopping a mass-killer before they could kill anyone doesn’t make the news.)
Dicken was a hero that saved lives that day. The first thing from the anti-gun was from Shannon Watts who instead of acknowledging the hero and the lives saved she very quickly got on Twitter and started condemning Dicken as basically a dangerous vicious blood-thirsty criminal for violating the mall ‘no guns zone’ prohibition. In Indiana, such a sign on private property (the mall was private property open to the public) does not have the force of law behind it therefore it is not a criminal offense (neither misdemeanor or felony) or civil offense under law in Indiana. And even if it was some sort of offense, it still does not remove the fact that Dicken was a hero that saved lives that day. But not to Shannon Watts, the high priestess of the anti-gun cult, to her Dicken was a dangerous vicious blood-thirsty criminal who murdered someone. There is no doubt that the anti-gun orgs and left wing MSM love the blood of the innocent being shed and the mass-killers, they do everything they can to showcase it – but its was also very obvious the anti-gun orgs and wide spread left wing MSM did not like it when and ordinary armed citizen saves lives by DGU.
Its the same with all anti-gun orgs. They claim to be about saving lives, and will be very obvious about making sure the world knows about the mass-killer’s actions but when that mass-killer is stopped by defensive gun use by an ordinary law abiding armed citizen and lives are saved because of it the anti-gun orgs are silent about the lives saved by that armed hero and silent about the hero’s actions or on a few very rare occasions in the past have indirectly mentioned it ‘in a ‘in passing’ manner but then made sure their overall narrative was about the mass-killers actions. All anti-gun orgs are their core view a law abiding gun owner as a vicious blood-thirsty criminal who wants to kill others, and not only that but also as a collective group these law abiding gun owners represent a resistance-threat to another of their core agendas and that is part of the left wing agenda to overthrow the United States and emplace a marx*ist socia*list regime where the left wing majority rules led by a left wing ruling elite.
But something else interesting that day from Shannon Watts – she exposed how the anti-gun orgs really are – this is how anti-gun orgs actually view a law abiding gun owner, as a vicious blood-thirsty criminal out to murder others and this is why they do not acknowledge a law abiding hero gun owner saving lives, its because to acknowledge such would destroy their carefully crafted and false narrative lie they have clung to for many years, the lie they have deluded their selves into believing like a religion-like mantra of a cult – that lie, that deception the anti-gun so desperate to cling to and want others to believe, is ‘there is no such thing as a good guy with a gun’.
Out here in the real world, we know that there are for a fact ‘good guys/gals with guns’ and millions of them too who were and are that ‘good guy/gal with a gun’ – ready to defend their homes and have done it, ready to defend their families and have done it, ready to defend others and have done it – defending from the evil that is present and real, the evil that collectively the anti-gun want to flourish by trying to make the rest of us defenseless.
Now forward in time to current day Jordan Salinas, another hero that put his life on the line to stop a mass-killer, a man who’s only goal was to save others and he did, and the left wing MSM is showcasing his heroic actions but the anti-gun orgs basically remain silent on it because it shows again their narrative of ‘no such thing as a good guy with a gun’ to be false. But between the incidents with Dicken and Salinas there were others who also stopped a mass-killer with DGU before lives could be taken and the reason you never heard about it was because there was no life taken or injured by the mass-killer because they were stopped before that could happen by either the mass-killer getting shot and killed by the hero defender or they were stopped with DGU before they could begin by the hero defender and only got charged with charges not related to actually killing someone or they ran off and killed their self after being faced with an ordinary armed citizen hero defender to stop them before they could begin – as a result it was not news worthy for the wide spread left wing MSM. Its not uncommon for the wide spread left wing MSM to ignore such events, victims don’t bleed so it doesn’t lead. For example, most never heard about this woman who stopped a mass-killer before others were killed or injured > ht* tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gNaz4whr0k
If there were no lives taken or injured by the mass-killer that Jordan Salinas stopped, you would probably not be hearing about Jordan Salinas from the left wing wide spread MSM either.
Preventing a mass-killer or other violent criminal from beginning or stopping them after beginning and thus saving lives, being that lone armed person, the only one there that has the best chance of stopping them from beginning or stopping them after they have started – putting their lives on the line to save others, going towards the danger to stop it, that armed citizen already there on scene – its the same intent today as it was in past before our country was even founded, the same when our country was founded – the ordinary armed citizen be it at home defense or defense of others, all through our country history we have had these ordinary armed citizens who met the danger head on and became hero’s.
Its sad and degenerate that the left wing wide spread MSM only recognizes hero’s when there is blood shed by a killer, its sad and degenerate that the anti-gun orgs tell the lie they are about saving lives but then don’t acknowledge the lives saved by an ordinary armed citizen using DGU to save lives and want to facilitate the killers by trying to disarm the rest of us, its sad and degenerate that the left wing democrat politicians especially embolden and facilitate the crime and killers by their anti-gun policy’s and laws that only affect the law abiding thus making the rest of us even more defenseless.
I can point to hundreds of mass-killers that could have been stopped and lives saved if it wasn’t for the area being a ‘gun free zone’, had an ordinary armed citizen been there is no guarantee but the reports of their words after it was over of what they would have done to stop the killer but were disarmed by a ‘gun free zone’. Like the armed parents that arrived at Uvalde ready to take on the killer when they realized the police were cowards, arrested and stopped while the police let children die, the guy at the bowling alley in Lewiston who was disarmed by the ‘no guns sign’ who tried to take on and stop the killer with bare hands but failed. Hundreds of these events where children and adults would have lived had their not been a ‘gun free zone’ or government-action thing to stop them from bringing armed DGU to stop the killers. And the anti-gun orgs and left wing MSM love it when these killers are not stopped.
Its a good thing that ordinary armed citizens hero’s like Dicken and Salinas and the hundreds of others, the collective millions all through our country history, were not stopped from saving lives by an artificial construct of a ‘no guns zone’ that was never suppose to be in our founders visions for our country or constitutional rights.
I should’ve clarified my statement ie. we finally have a “nationally televised” example of a good guy with a gun engaging a mass shooter, this one is hard for the Dumocrat’s media mouthpieces to ignore.
what do you mean ‘finally’?
These mass-casualty type events happen ‘frequently’ only you never hear about them because they were stopped by an already on scene ordinary armed citizen before they could begin.
They have happened all through the history of our country, stopped by already on scene ordinary armed citizen before they could begin. There are no victims injured or killed, the mass-killer was stopped before that could happen by either the mass-killer getting shot and killed by the hero defender or they were stopped with DGU before they could begin by the hero defender and only got charged with charges not related to actually killing someone or they ran off and killed their self after being faced with an ordinary armed citizen hero defender to stop them before they could begin – as a result it was not news worthy for the wide spread left wing MSM. Its not uncommon for the wide spread left wing MSM to ignore such events, victims don’t bleed so it doesn’t lead. For example, most never heard about this woman who stopped a mass-killer before others were killed or injured > ht* tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gNaz4whr0k
I once listed hundreds of these events across the United States in posts over at TTAG, complete with links to a police reports or a mention in a local news article or report where it happened. Sadly, those posts are lost now as when TTAG changed owners and the site was re-done a lot of posts were lost. I’ve tried to recreate those lists here at SNW but the ghost post issue combined with the ‘multiple links’ issue will not let them post so I gave up, but in the mean while I lost a hard drive and was unable to recover the list among other data and I have not re-done the research again completely and some of the sources are no longer available due to the changing nature of the internet even though the links to where they were show up in search engines. Most times it was needed to search for coverage outside the United States because here in the States MSM trends not to cover these types of events but they will show up in news sources outside the United States. A lot of them took place in areas no one normally associates with mass-killers because of left wing MSM coverage. In places like, for example, auto-parts stores, convenience stores, or homes or private events, where the mass-killer was stopped and victims saved before any blood was shed and the mass-killer was only charged with an attempted-something i.e. robbery or murder, or maybe a weapons charge, which are pretty much run of the mill charges so it doesn’t make the news and the actual story of stopping a mass-killer before they could kill anyone doesn’t make the news. It also was not a gun being used by the mass-killer in a lot of them, more frequently some type of bladed/sharpened weapon like a knife.
If there were no lives taken or injured by the mass-killer that Jordan Salinas stopped, you would probably not be hearing much about Jordan Salinas from the left wing wide spread MSM either.
Preventing a mass-killer or other violent criminal from beginning or stopping them after beginning, and thus saving lives, being that lone armed person, the only one there that has the best chance of stopping them from beginning or stopping them after they have started – putting their lives on the line to save others, going towards the danger to stop it, that armed citizen already there on scene – its the same intent today as it was in past before our country was even founded, the same when our country was founded – the ordinary armed citizen be it at home defense or defense of others, all through our country history we have had these ordinary armed citizens who met the danger head on and became hero’s.
Its sad and degenerate that the left wing wide spread MSM only recognizes hero’s when there is blood shed by a killer, its sad and degenerate that the anti-gun orgs tell the lie they are about saving lives but then don’t acknowledge the lives saved by an ordinary armed citizen using DGU to save lives and want to facilitate the killers by trying to disarm the rest of us, its sad and degenerate that the left wing democrat politicians especially embolden and facilitate the crime and killers by their anti-gun policy’s and laws that only affect the law abiding thus making the rest of us even more defenseless.
Its a good thing that ordinary armed citizens hero’s like Dicken and Salinas and the hundreds of others, the collective millions all through our country history, were not stopped from saving lives by an artificial construct of a ‘no guns zone’ that was never suppose to be in our founders visions for our country or constitutional rights.
I don’t know if the usual sign posted on the door of that business or many businesses was posted; “No firearms allowed. This is a gun free zone.” Whenever I see that sign I think this business is a hunting preserve for psychopathic murderers.